Intimidation Rule?

NC_Goalie_Girl · 03-29-2009, 03:49 PM

So the other day we had a game and at halftime the refs tell us there's a new rule, essentially we can only call "ball" one time while defending or situations similar to that instead of the usual "ball, ball, ball....". I was just wondering if someone could explain this rule to me, I don't remember seeing it in the rule book and I don't see a point in it.

D3Goalie9 · 03-29-2009, 07:52 PM

not true. that was not in the new rules for this year.

laxcat22 · 03-29-2009, 08:06 PM

I've never heard of that, ever..

NC_Goalie_Girl · 03-29-2009, 09:41 PM

Yeah that's what I thought too, but a friend of mine at another high school in the county was telling me they called them for it during their game.

Could it just be a county or state rule or something? Has anyone from NC heard of this?

SaiLax · 03-29-2009, 09:52 PM

That sounds ridiculous, if that is seriously a rule. How are we supposed to play good defense if we can't communicate?

ques · 03-29-2009, 10:37 PM

As with all rules they are open to interpertation. Some umps consider the repeated ball, ball, ball as taunting and will call it. Not right but until a coach reports this ump for their interpertaion it will continue. It might even be your local head ump asking for this. But unless a call is made nothing will happen.

NHLaxDad · 03-30-2009, 02:18 PM

I have had the unfortunate experience of having a defender SCREAMING "BALL! BALL! BALL!" at my girls 2 years ago in Saratoga Springs at a tournament. This was clearly an attempt at intimidation, was driven by the coaches, and was ignored by the umpires (not real officials, just the local HS team). I told my girls to just yell back at the other team, which we proceeded to do, which rattled them so much they completely fell apart, and we beat them easily. Their reaction after the game-crying uncontrollably-suggested to me that their strategy of intimidation had worked up until that point.

IMHO, that sort of behavior has no place in lacrosse, or any sport for that matter. Calling "ball" to communicate with your teammates in another thing entirely.

NC_Goalie_Girl · 03-30-2009, 10:21 PM

That makes sense NHLaxDad. I could see why it might be called in that situation.

But our team plays nothing like that. We call it strictly for communication. I'll have to ask our speaking captain at the next game to politefully ask the ref about it.

CTLaxer · 03-30-2009, 11:33 PM

My kids are taught to constantly yell "I GOT BALL!" on defense. It has nothing to do with intimidation. It's done to let the other defenders know where the ball is in case they can't see it or have to focus on their girl at the moment.

Does it rattle some teams/players? Yes. Is it against the rules? No. Would I get a penalty for yelling at any official who called my kids on this? You bet your booty.

Slapcheck · 03-31-2009, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC_Goalie_Girl

I'll have to ask our speaking captain at the next game to politefully ask the ref about it.

politefully?? really?!

Esquared · 03-31-2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHLaxDad

I have had the unfortunate experience of having a defender SCREAMING "BALL! BALL! BALL!" at my girls 2 years ago in Saratoga Springs at a tournament.

Do you mean Saratoga Springs, NY?

ques · 03-31-2009, 01:51 PM

Screw the captain, the coach should have already dealt with this!!!!!

NHLaxDad · 02:29 PM

Yup, Saratoga Springs, NY, but it was at a youth tournament, and it wasn't the Saratoga Springs team.

I totally agree with coaching girls to yell "ball, ball, ball" while covering the attacker with the ball. That's different than screaming like a banshee-not normal behavior for a 13 year old girl!

I think just having a defense that communicates is intimidating, which is a good thing. It's the over-the-top behavior I saw that was clearly being taught and used to intimidate, not communicate, that I objected to.

In the corners · 03-31-2009, 02:55 PM

I've heard of an intimidation rule before but I didn't think it was for this. I thought it was for looking at someone wrong. Either way...it's rediculous...but i don't know anything about girls lax...

Esquared · 03-31-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHLaxDad

Yup, Saratoga Springs, NY, but it was at a youth tournament, and it wasn't the Saratoga Springs team.

I totally agree with coaching girls to yell "ball, ball, ball" while covering the attacker with the ball. That's different than screaming like a banshee-not normal behavior for a 13 year old girl!

I think just having a defense that communicates is intimidating, which is a good thing. It's the over-the-top behavior I saw that was clearly being taught and used to intimidate, not communicate, that I objected to.

i don't think saratoga springs has its own team
but i live within 15 minutes of saratoga and i know that the teams we play (that have youth teams) definitely are taught to taunt/distract their opponents by yelling "ball" and other such things it's really annoying at the varsity level when you have a capable player's first resort being screaming before she even gets a good defensive position. but as you make your point, the communication is fierce on some of the teams, rather intimidating until it is broken down.

gallolax · 04-01-2009, 05:30 AM

To be honest, never understood why the 'ball, ball, ball' call by a defender is so prevalent in girls lacrosse. I have coached girls lacrosse for a while now, and always thought the goalie is in the best position to call the location of the ball let alone any other instructions necessary for the defense. For instance, how can any of the other defenders (other than the one actually yelling this) hear a correct slide call from their goalie? It would seem that the goalie can easily direct her teammates where the ball is without having her defenders call it.

Esquared · 04-01-2009, 10:53 PM

My team - although we are varsity - have two inexperienced goalies this year. (and by inexperienced i mean neither have played at all before) we graduated a very good goalie 2 years ago and have not been able to get one to stick with it since.
Because the goalies aren't very good, our coach is emphasizing the defense players' communication to help the goalie learn to track the ball, the player with the ball, and the players without the ball all at the same time. Since neither of our goalies have any idea what a defensive slide is, we have to call them on our own as well.

I'm guessing that defensive communication the way we are operating this year may be similar to communication in youth lacrosse (i never played so i'm sorry if i'm wrong) and maybe the general trend of teams doing it is because the players have been taught to communicate like that since they were young, and they just continue on with it into the upper levels?

mymy30 · 04-02-2009, 01:22 AM

My team recently had a game where this was an issue. at the beginning of the game the ref informed us that we could only call ball for the purpose of communication (once or twice) this threw off a lot of our defense, especially some of the naturally louder players. there is defiantly a difference between yelling at the player you are guarding and communicating to your defense, its just harder to tell depending on the player. I know that when I'm on D, it is helpful when my team mates and I keep up a constant flow of talk, so I can focus on what I'm doing, while still being aware of whats going on at all times.

chippie · 04-02-2009, 06:05 AM

Communication is the key....and im sure any coach would like their players to communicate whats going on!!

speaking to an interntional umpire, you can be called if you are shouting in someones ear as a way of putting them off on purpose, but if your just communicating then thats not a problem...im sure most sensible umpires can tell the difference!

laxcat22 · 04-02-2009, 09:56 AM

I don't see why putting them off on purpose is a bad thing. Do it in practice, get used to it, and ignore it in games. I realize that there's a difference between youth/high school/college lacrosse. But why wouldn't you do everything you could to gain the upper hand in a game? Our defense is always talking.. Ball, hot right/left, flash, slide, etc on top of me/other goalie calling where the ball is, calling slides, calling flash, crash, doubles, etc. The more talk there is, the better we play and the harder it is for the attack to focus.

Lax-Umpire · 05-28-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laxcat22

I don't see why putting them off on purpose is a bad thing. Do it in practice, get used to it, and ignore it in games. I realize that there's a difference between youth/high school/college lacrosse. But why wouldn't you do everything you could to gain the upper hand in a game? Our defense is always talking.. Ball, hot right/left, flash, slide, etc on top of me/other goalie calling where the ball is, calling slides, calling flash, crash, doubles, etc. The more talk there is, the better we play and the harder it is for the attack to focus.

Talking and communication is great and should be expected from a good team. That is the way a defense works togethor.

Yelling at a player - simply unsportsmanlike and will be called.

Most reasonalble umpires can easily tell the difference.

Lax-Umpire · 11-03-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gallolax

To be honest, never understood why the 'ball, ball, ball' call by a defender is so prevalent in girls lacrosse. I have coached girls lacrosse for a while now, and always thought the goalie is in the best position to call the location of the ball let alone any other instructions necessary for the defense. For instance, how can any of the other defenders (other than the one actually yelling this) hear a correct slide call from their goalie? It would seem that the goalie can easily direct her teammates where the ball is without having her defenders call it.

Had the opportunuty to get to many games this year, upper level both high School and College. What I have noted is the upper level teams use the Goalie as the defensive leader. Verbal Comunication between the members of the defense is far more the "ball-ball-ball". The better the communication, the better the defense works - togethor.

LAXLOVER15 · 11-09-2009, 11:56 AM

I just finished a lacrosse umpiring course, and it is NO WHERE in the rule book that you can't repeat "ball" when guarding the ball

Transtar · 11-09-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAXLOVER15

I just finished a lacrosse umpiring course, and it is NO WHERE in the rule book that you can't repeat "ball" when guarding the ball

Read LaxUmps posts above yours. Just because there is no specific rule doesn't mean there isn't a foul being committed. (This would fall under the Unsportsmanlike conduct rule in my opinion). There are many situations that occur in a game where you will need to take the rules and apply them directly to your situation, even though there is not a specific rule in the rulebook.

But getting back to the original topic here are some scenarios and how I have handled them.

1) High School Varsity Game. Defender is yelling "Got Ball.........Got Ball....Got Ball...ect". It wasn't disruptive to the attacker, and I felt was reasonable since it gave her defenders a auditory cue to where the ball is, and gave the goalie enough time to communicate to her defenders. I'm perfectly OK with this scenario

2) Middle School game (modified checking). Defender was in good defensive position and was yelling "BALL....BALL....BALL" (I think she picked this up to try and get the refs to start a 3 sec defensive count). Had the attacker surprised, but I felt it did not impacted the play (the attack team didn't even try to get open for a pass

) I told the player that it was a borderline call, and to try turning it down or have a bigger pause in between.

3) Middle School (modified checking) Attacker stalls at the 12m fan, defender runs up right in front of the attacker (sets a good defensive position too) and SCREAMS "BALLBALLBALLBALL" That is where I drew the line, it had NO redeeming value to the defense, and was a deliberate attempt to intimidate the player.

So in short: I have seen where it is a problem, but to make a blanket statement that someone can only say Ball once or twice would be a mistake. It would be much better to better educate the Umpires to show them how to make the call (or no call).